Jan Hugo: Welcome to the Relocated South African, a show for navigating immigration from South Africa for a better future. Today we joined by Rogério Vieira. He lives in Lagos in Portugal and good morning Rogério, welcome to our podcast.
Rogerio Vieira: Good morning Jan, thanks for having me.
Jan Hugo: Rogerio is also from South Africa. I think he said to me he’s been in Portugal for eight months, living in the same town as I do. And Rogerio, so you guys have only been here for relatively short while with the family and so on. What’s your experience been to date?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, the experience has been very good. It’s very similar, reminds me a lot of South Africa, which we really enjoy. The sun is good. I think before we came here, they mentioned that it’s cold in Europe and Portugal is cold. But the Bulgarian experience is completely different.
We came and we decided to take a move early in our life. I think I’m early in my 40s and the kids are still small. We’ve got a lot of kids. We have five children and the oldest is now turning 12 and the youngest is five. So we decided to get them into the schooling system because we thought there’s a better opportunity and maybe financially they’ll work better after all the challenges back home.
And yeah, so we’ve got them into the schooling system. Yeah, and we’re pretty happy. We think that on the long run, it can be very rewarding if I can say it like that. So I think basically more for the kids, we decided to make this move. Lots of people decide to maybe if they want to immigrate to Australia or New Zealand, the UK, wherever it can be Dubai, wherever.
We decided to come here fortunately because I have Portuguese citizenship and the kids have too and my wife is in the process of getting that so you know it’s been a tremendous experience. My wife is South African and I am South African Portuguese so that’s our goal our goal is to get her citizenship and her European passport and if things don’t work here in two years time or whatever at least we’ve secured something. And we can always go back to South Africa. We love South Africa. We don’t have issues with South Africa. It’s a bit complicated, but you’ll understand what I mean.
Jan Hugo: Absolutely. Thanks, Rogerio. Yeah, I think it’s, I mean, obviously with what’s going on worldwide now politically in America and all the noise about South Africa, I think we’re finding a lot of people are starting to ask questions. Should we, should we not leave, you know, as you said, I think a lot of people are finding that they want to secure some kind of future for their children and then maybe go back. I think that’s always a possibility and I guess that’s what you guys are saying. In terms of the kids having grown up mostly in South Africa or having grown up in South Africa and probably being English and African speaking, how are you guys finding them coping with the language in Portugal?
Rogerio Vieira: Okay, well, we had our kids on the online student because they were in Afrikaan schools and then we put them online teaching and it went to English. So we only recently put them in the Portuguese school now four weeks ago. So it’s too early to tell. But they are picking up on the Portuguese. I think the twins that are five years old, they’re picking up very quickly. I think they started to have conversations with people and yeah, they did. If they were younger, I think they pick it up quite easily. As older people, it’s a bit more difficult. It’s not an easy language. Fucking good. Ask me.
Jan Hugo: How long have you been here for? We now… First of February, we’ve been here two years in Portugal. But remember, we left South Africa in 2020 and we lived in France. So I can speak French, but I’m afraid I’ve given up on the Portuguese. My wife is still doing lessons, but I find the Portuguese, even though it’s a Latin-based language, I just find the pronunciation and nuances very, very difficult. So I can say bon dia and come et star.
Rogerio Vieira: Hopefully we’ll get there.
Jan Hugo: But you obviously are a Portuguese citizen. Did you learn Portuguese growing up?
Rogerio Vieira: Oh well, my parents or my dad immigrated in the early 70s when he was 15 years old. So one of the last shifts that he worked in Madeira was he was carrying a bag for another player because he stayed very close to Santa Serra, which is the golf course that he went to go and work as a kid. He was 14 years old or so. And it was the quarterfinals, I think, of the England versus Portugal soccer match. And the TVs in 1966, that was the time they had just come out. So they only had a TV in the clubhouse at that time. So the KD said, listen, don’t walk outside there, because the KDs weren’t allowed to come inside. They said, come and watch the game. Portugal is winning 1-0, and it’s taken off. So it was a big thing. Portugal eventually lost against England 4-1. I think that is a run about the score my dad was telling me I still remember. And England won that World Cup, but then soon after that, a couple of years later, he came to South Africa. He first went to Rhodesia. He worked there as a chef. And then he went to South Africa from there. He got a permit to go to South Africa. So I was born in 1981. By that time, he learned how to speak English. They couldn’t speak English before then, you see. So once they learned how to speak English like everyone else, they lost out on the Portuguese while I did. So I speak very little Portuguese, not enough. Okay, okay. Just to share some stories there.
Jan Hugo: That’s fascinating. Was he, I know that you’re a keen and good golfer. Was your father also a good golfer in his day?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, he was a good golfer, but he was always into business, so he didn’t have much time for golf. Okay. But he would always practice his swing with a broom in the shop floor. with some tool in his hands, he had practiced his swing some way.
Jan Hugo: He was a good golfer. That’s absolutely fascinating. And we live in the paradise for golf. It’s a great place for golf, although as you and I know the weather the last few weeks has been absolutely dreadful. I think the people from the UK are saying they’re better off being back in the UK than on the old golf. But I’m sure it will pass. It’s necessary for the dam. That’s really good. Rogerio, the other question, obviously on the schooling, are you guys, as you said, it’s early days, but I mean, things that for us were very important when we got here was like, you know, medical facilities, obviously with a family, it’s very important to have good medical, to have good schooling, to have the safety that we’re not used to in South Africa and those kind of things. Are you guys quite happy with what you’re seeing around Lagos and Portugal?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, we’re quite happy with what we see. I mean, the medical, we do take out a small private plan which helps us to get us better access or quicker access into the hospitals if something happens. And, you know, the pharmacy is everything. It all operates very good. We’re happy our things are operated, yeah. The schools have different levels. We’re still investigating on what schools to, I believe that the closer you are to the school, then that would be your public school if you had to go into the public schooling system. But as far as I hear, it’s very good. It’s excellent. The schooling system, the education is good. And we’re looking forward to it. And there’s many schools around here. Lots of kids. I mean, the classes are very little. The students in the class, I think around about 12, 15 at max, students per class. So if you’re looking at a radio for five kilometers, maybe you’ve got two, three schools around there. But the schools are plenty for the kids. And education is apparently very good.
Jan Hugo: Well, that’s awesome to know because I think a lot of people, when they leave, as you said earlier, people look at places where it’s say English like Dubai or maybe Australia, New Zealand, try and keep the same lifestyle that they would have had in South Africa. and end up finding big South African communities. I think here it’s slightly different. There is probably a big South African community, but we find that, you know, we haven’t really slotted in with a lot of South Africans. I don’t know what the case is with you guys, but we finding at the golf club and battle and things that we do, we have this lot of French and especially ice cycles. There’s a lot of French cyclists. lot of Swedes at the Gulf and battle and lots of English people. So that’s also good for me. I don’t know how you guys find that. Do you miss the South African community?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, well, there’s lots of groups. I think my wife joined a group now called the SA Ladies or something, but there’s like 500 followers. But if we first went to school with the kids and we started hearing the South Africans and, you know, you hear the background, the voice, then we started realizing, jeez, but there’s lots of South Africans here. So there must be like five families there in a small school with just a hundred students. So the South Africans are plenty, but like you say, I mean, there’s a mixed nationality of Swedes and Russians, even from Poland. And it’s nice because, I mean, everyone comes from different backgrounds and we all respect each other and it’s nice. You will notice we see it in the golf courses and my wife does also the exercises. It’s nice. It’s a nice feeling to know that everyone is one.
Jan Hugo: Absolutely. That’s what we find fascinating. And I think the thing that I like about this change, obviously we’re a lot older, so we don’t have the kids at school and that kind of thing. So we’re more into the communities of retired people. But it’s just fascinating all the stories. Everyone has a story where they come from and what they’ve done and what they’re doing and where their families are. So I really enjoy the diversity of what we have here. In our case, our children left South Africa fairly early on. I have a son in America and a daughter in Ireland and my wife’s daughter is in Isle of Man. So we kind of put ourselves in Europe to be closer to the kids. But we really, I must say, I don’t think I’ll ever leave Portugal. I would never say never. But for us, we like the lifestyle. It’s similar to where we lived in Stellenbosch. The climate is fantastic. The people are friendly. I don’t think I’ve… I mean, having lived in France, I’ve ever come across friendlier people than in Portugal.
Rogerio Vieira: Oh, that’s wonderful. Really, that’s nice.
Jan Hugo: And we enjoy the food and the restaurants. There’s so many. I think Lagos has 600 restaurants alone. So there’s plenty to do and to see. And the scenery out, the beaches and just nature. It’s an awesome place to live. So we are very happy. And I’m glad to hear that you guys are happy. When you said earlier on, if it kind of doesn’t work out, you’ll probably go back. Do you see that as a real possibility?
Rogerio Vieira: I think if we’re looking at work-wise, I’m looking for work at the moment, and if it doesn’t filter, then there’s a possibility we could come back. It’ll never be the same, because we’ll always think about what we ate here or how it is here, so hopefully, but we have to be positive and just give it a bit more time and then see where’s the possibility of going back to South Africa, yeah.
Jan Hugo: And do you guys still have family, brothers and sisters in South Africa?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, I’ve got a sister there and she’s got two great-grandchildren already. Well, the second one is on the way next week. And then that’s all I have. My wife’s sister is in Canada and with her family. And then it’s just my mother-in-law that’s back in Vulcan in South Africa. Otherwise, it’s aunts and uncles, but it’s just a family that is still there, not close family. So yeah, that’s all that we have there. I think that my mother-in-law would come here and it would be better, but she’s in a relationship. eventually I will see. That would be nice if we could have the grandmother over the grandkids as well.
Jan Hugo: Yes, yes, I can imagine. And in terms of looking over the last eight months and what you guys have done and how you got here, is there something you would have done differently?
Rogerio Vieira: I think what we’ve done, we’ve done conservative, so everything has been perfect. I think I wouldn’t change it for hard to win. I think I’m happy with the progress that we have made. And like you say, the people are very friendly and you know, everything has just fallen into place. There’s only certain areas that becomes difficult is the language barrier. Like, my Portuguese is very little. And I think if it would be a great advantage if your Portuguese was better than for work conditions and all of that. But otherwise, we’d be happy with the outcome that we’ve been in the last eight months.
Jan Hugo: I guess with your spelling of your name and your surname, people probably immediately start, but they also start speaking Portuguese to you.
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, it helps a lot. It is getting better, I tell you. But a practice, doing good.
Jan Hugo: The other question, I mean, I asked a question about would you have done something differently? To give you an example, when we left South Africa, we lent our ears out to people who had emigrated before and they said, ah, you must take your furniture. You don’t get the same quality of furniture when you leave and you move overseas. Oh my word. We took a 40 foot container, shipped it to France and donated it in the end. It was the biggest waste of money that we’ve ever done because simple thing we found that the furniture didn’t fit. European houses are so much smaller to South African houses. We had these massive cultures and things. So on things like that, did you guys just come and start a fresh year?
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, we did start fresh here. We thought it was too expensive to ship it over. So we had the opportunity of where we stay now and both wish that the contact details of the interior designers or whatever you call them, that gave us good advice on what furniture and catalogs and prices and all of that. So in comparison, it was cheaper to buy it here. We would have made a very big mistake to take our furniture. I know it’s sentimental. Dave your furniture back home but often speaking to a few people like you said not worth it at the end and it doesn’t get damaged from the shipment in it.
Jan Hugo: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, so the furniture was obviously a big thing for us. I must say that it cost us a lot of money. I think we made somebody happy in France when we donated it because there’s absolutely no value in secondhand furniture. You mentioned something that obviously with you and your kids having European citizenship is pretty easy. Have you guys found it quite difficult converting or getting your wife’s passport and citizenship done?
Rogerio Vieira: There’s going to be a wait. I think they mentioned a year and a half to about three years, but we do have an advantage on this. The reason why I say this is because when we got married the 11 years ago, we registered our marriage in the Portuguese Council. That makes it a lot easier. I think if you register your marriage, on the European Council five years before, then it makes it a lot easier, and the process speeds it up a bit more. But we haven’t heard any feedback yet of the biometrics that you’ll have to take. But the process is there, so it’s up to the government on how long it takes. But you also have to go through that AIMA process.
Jan Hugo: I’m not sure of the AIMA. AIMA is the agency that dealt. Why I know is a lot of South Africans are battling with this. There’s a group called South Africans Helping South Africans in Portugal. I don’t know if you’ve come across that one. It’s worth joining. It’s a guy called Steve Robinson. He’s got 25,000 members in Portugal and they deal with all these questions, he’s got a gazillion files about all the issues that are related to immigration and just general information. It’s actually a very useful Facebook group to join. And they often talk about people like yourselves where there’s a family reunification, I think they call it. So it’s worth considering looking at that.
Rogerio Vieira: But that would be for the grandmother or for the last member of the family?
Jan Hugo: Even for your wife, I think so. He’s got files on it because I think you have to make appointments with this AIMA. It’s a bit of a nightmare to get in with them because that changed. It used to be called the SEF and now it’s called AIMA. and when the government changed.
Rogerio Vieira: So it’s a bit of a nightmare. With buying the property and then obviously the financing that had to take place and the transfers and all that, you went through a lawyer. Like I say with Boa Vista, Goldforsdort, they have the resources for all these things and they appoint you the best lawyer that works with them. So you got all these advantages and this is the guy that’s helping us as well with my wife. Okay. Citizenship.
Jan Hugo: I’m not sure what process he’s going through. Okay. No, as I say, it’s just some people that I know are battling to get these appointments and so on with the red tape.
Rogerio Vieira: I think they are mentioning it on all the groups. But we asked the lawyer last week, and he mentioned something about a D7 visa.
Jan Hugo: Yeah, well, this is the thing. As I say, just for information, if you go look on that group, that South Africans Helping South Africans on Facebook, they talk a lot about the D7. My brother’s just applied. He just got his D7 approved. And it’s, we understand it’s like a retirement visa. And that’s, you know, the process that you have to go through for those biometrics. And then you get a two year. I think it may be different because you’re already a citizen and your wife. I think it’s different. It’s probably not a D7. But anyway, the lawyers, they should be the people.
Rogerio Vieira: Yeah, the D7 would be for our mother-in-law. She had to come and live with us.
Jan Hugo: Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s the retirement visa. Yeah. But it is also just the process, but it is very doable. So, I mean, just one last question. If you have to advise a friend or somebody in South Africa now on leaving the country and what would your advice be? What’s the most important?
Rogerio Vieira: I think having a profession is the first and the most important thing. I believe that there’s lots of challenges because my mother-in-law is also a teacher. We have four over 44 years and she’s often at school, a local school. And the schools are falling apart. The teachers are leaving. So the ongoing question is, how long will the South Africans survive with the education that they have for their children? And so I think if you’ve got a profession, and if you want to try Portugal, it’s a fantastic place to come and teach. even if you have any other professions in handiwork or construction or whatever the case may be. I can’t speak for Algarve in total, but Lagos from where you and I are, you can see for yourself that you don’t need much Portuguese to do business if you have a profession and if you can just get a head start. So yeah, there is opportunities here. It’s a very English welcoming community that they have. It’s a fantastic community from all parts of the world. So if you want to take a calculated risk, then it’s worth it. Take a chance, then come here and have a look. I think it’ll be worth it.
Jan Hugo: That’s awesome. Well, Rogerio, thank you so much. Thanks for chatting to us. I think it just gives people a different insight as well. And I wish you well. And I’m sure we’ll see each other a lot around the golf course. So thanks a lot for joining us today.
Rogerio Vieira: And we’re playing in the morning tomorrow, together. We hope. We’ll catch up. Okay, cool. So they’ve changed the door. We’ll see you there.
Jan Hugo: Thanks, Jan. It was nice. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening. If you’ve enjoyed hearing about our experience of relocating from South Africa, why not subscribe to the show so you can hear more from people who have left South Africa for a better future abroad. Thanks and until next time.
