Jan Hugo: Welcome to The Relocated South African Show for Navigating Immigration from South Africa for a Better Future. I’m your host Jan Hugo from Lagos in Portugal. Check out our website www.therelocatedsouthafrican.com. It contains a whole lot of useful information and details of all episodes to date. If you want to interact with us or comment on our discussions, or even participate in an interview, please contact me on jan@therelocatedsouthafrican.com.

Also, if you like our content, why not subscribe on your favourite platform? Today, I welcome you from Hamilton in New Zealand, Abré, if I may welcome Abré.

Abré van Wyk: Thanks, it’s been great for me.

Jan Hugo: Awesome. So Abré describes himself on LinkedIn as not your typical CA. He’s a cloud and tech fanatic driven by grace and the truth will set you free. What a great way to describe yourself. Abré is of course the host of KarooKiwi, which is a podcast aimed at Safas living abroad. I will let Abré tell us a bit more about the podcast a little later. So like I do with all the guests on the podcasts, I would like to ask you to just give us a bit of your history: where you born, where’d you grow up, go to school, a bit about your family, and how did you get to live in New Zealand today? So that’s a whole lot of questions. I’ll hand it over to you.

Abré van Wyk: Okay. Thanks, Jan, for that intro. Yeah, so I was born in Kenton Park, Johannesburg, but we only lived there up to when I was five. So then we moved to the Western Cape town called Worcester. I was there since, as I said, five, attended school, grew up there. It’s sort of a countryside town, much bigger now today than it was back then in 1990. I attended Worcester Gymnasium High School, which is one of the bigger local schools in town, and studied at Stellenbosch and UNISA and made a turn in Pretoria for about two years and then moved back to the Western Cape after that. In between got married to Adoré, for 12 and a half years now, and then yeah, for the past 10 years before we moved to New Zealand we were back in the Worcester area.

And then about a year ago, we made the move to Hamilton in New Zealand, which is the third largest city in New Zealand where we are today.

Jan Hugo: Okay, awesome. And you’re qualified as a CA. Did you work for one of the big firms in South Africa?

Abré van Wyk: No, so I did my articles through a local smaller firm in Worcester. It’s one of the BGR offices. They got a few offices in the Cape area.

Jan Hugo: Okay, awesome. If we, if you don’t mind, can we explore the immigration decision a little bit more? What made you decide to leave South Africa?

Abré van Wyk: So if you ask my wife, I always had this itch to move abroad. So we looked at various locations and my eyes were set on the UAE, so Dubai, Abu Dhabi areas. And I always knew sort of that I would get a job, but she would get one way easier. She’s a teacher. They are wanted everywhere. So then things didn’t happen that way to go to the UAE. And beyond that, I said, we will never come to New Zealand. It’s way too far. Because my sister and her family moved here about seven years ago. And we came to visit them in 2023. And then my never say never moment happened.

So I’ve seen what life could be like here and how you could sort of settle and have a good life and it’s safe. And so I told my wife, this is the one, this is the overseas moment we’re going to have and the journey we’re going on. And we made the decision to move. So that took us about a year with all the registrations and applications you have to do and stuff like that. Yeah, that was 2024 and we’ve been here a year now.

Jan Hugo: I mean, that’s really interesting. Not everybody gets the opportunity to actually go and visit the place where they eventually end up.

Abré van Wyk: No, unfortunately.

Jan Hugo: That’s a big benefit. Does your sister also stay in Hamilton?

Abré van Wyk: Yes.

Jan Hugo: Okay. So that kind of led to the decision because of soft landing. Yeah. That makes a huge amount of sense. And when you moved across, did you come across on your skill visa or your wife’s or both?

Abré van Wyk: Yes, so no. Again, because she’s a teacher, we were able to actually get a visa on her profile. So she got a job at first with a visa attached to it. So I piggybacked on that to New Zealand. So for a CA, it’s not that easy to actually get an in-practice job, but I think we’re going to get there in your questions. So yeah. Point being, it was my wife with the teacher’s qualification that led us here.

Jan Hugo: Okay, well that’s really interesting. Hamilton. I mean, I don’t know, the other cities you know, Auckland, I don’t even know, is Hamilton on the South Island or North?

Abré van Wyk: Central North Island, yeah. Just about an hour and a half south from Auckland again.

Jan Hugo: Okay. And I noticed on the social media that you spent the December holidays in South Africa. It’s interesting that not everybody gets that opportunity to go back so soon after leaving. What was it like seeing friends and family again?

Abré van Wyk: Yes, so they said you shouldn’t go back within a year. Fortunately and unfortunately we had return tickets booked when we came here. So we sort of had to go and my sister and family went to visit as well. So we said we’re not going to stay here alone without them. No, it was brilliant, Jan. So just being a year away from everyone, it was great to see them back in South Africa. Not much has changed in the last year. Yeah, but it was good. It was refreshing.

Jan Hugo: And I mean, I don’t know when you last were in South Africa, but it’s a good vibe. Good. I haven’t been for, this is my sixth year out of the country. We haven’t been back yet. So I think for me, it’s changed. We left in 2020 just after COVID. I’ll probably find it very different. But my kids live abroad. So it’s easier for us to be based in Europe.

Abré van Wyk: So after the few weeks there, would you consider going back?

Jan Hugo: Yes.

Abré van Wyk: So again, if you ask my wife today, let’s go back tomorrow, she’ll say yes. So, but we have a sort of a plan why we came here and what we want to achieve. And then we’ll see what goes from there. But yeah, our plan was always to sort of go back and we have a five to ten year plan. So we didn’t run away from South Africa. We didn’t leave on a bad foot. We didn’t burn any bridges. So yeah.

Jan Hugo: That’s really interesting because, you know, and I keep saying that and you’ll probably see that when you talk to people on your podcast as well, is that people, you know, have different circumstances. So what works for you doesn’t work for anybody else, you know. And some people that I’ve found have had really bad experiences crime-wise and so forth. And for them, you know, they’re just blind to anything about South Africa. But others go for opportunities. I’ve had a family that went to Ireland, got their Irish passports. Kids were born there. Nine years later, they went back and they live in Velddrif now and they’re totally happy. So, you know, it’s what works for you. And I think that’s just the right thing to do. I guess you all still have parents and family, a lot of them in South Africa.

Abré van Wyk: Yes. So both my parents and then my wife’s mother is still there and we both have a sister with families over there as well. Yeah.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. I think, you know, that’s, we’ll probably get to that, but that’s probably the most traumatic thing for people is leaving parents behind and it often feels like a very selfish decision to leave. So yeah, it’s quite tough. Anyway, let’s get to, before we move to immigration, let’s talk about your podcast, KarooKiwi. Where did the idea for the podcast originate?

Abré van Wyk: So the idea was sort of a hard moment during the past year that I was here in New Zealand. So my wife was kept quite busy with the teaching and the preparation for classes, etc. I had some spare time in the evenings, but in the back of my mind, I always wanted to sort of do something like this, something similar, maybe on a stage. I always wanted to do something like a podcast or a talk show or just something that you can share knowledge, you know. So first I figured it might be in the line of my profession, you know, as a chartered accountant, so finances and taxes, etc. But it sort of grew to become a community builder as I spoke to more and more people and started focusing also on people that sort of immigrated and living abroad. And at first, obviously it came from the New Zealand perspective, but I wanted to throw the net wider and make it sort of global as far as I can as an information provider and a networking tool maybe.

Jan Hugo: I mean, I totally relate to that. I think this kind of thing doesn’t come natural to us CAs.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly.

Jan Hugo: You’ve got to put yourself out there.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah.

Jan Hugo: And in terms of your daily business, you obviously working as a CA in New Zealand. Is the podcast a tool in your business itself?

Abré van Wyk: So I’m not practicing as a CA per se now in New Zealand. I’m more in the business sector and local government at this stage. I would however like to actually move into practice again, because I do like the technical and financial and tax side of things. So for the podcast now, and I think that’s the main reason why it didn’t start off as something in my industry, you know, so it’s more with regards to immigration and information and community and networking. Yeah, at first.

Jan Hugo: Okay, okay. I think I saw that you also have some sponsors that transfer funds and that kind of thing. I mean, that’s all part of the immigration party.

Abré van Wyk: Correct, yes.

Jan Hugo: And I mean, you must have had some really interesting guests on the show. Can you share some anecdotes about that?

Abré van Wyk: The guests, yeah, an amazing bunch. It was certainly a wild ride. I enjoyed it so much. And I mean, I’ve learned all the way through from episode one to episode 16. My show is a bit different to yours. I see you just go on and on continually. I sort of took a gap now and stopped at 16 for the first season and I’ll move on to the next season again with another 16 episodes planned. But yeah, so some great ones and I don’t want to put them in any order or leave anyone out. So I’m going to just mention a few of them.

One that comes to mind first is John Watson. So John, yeah, he was one of the most calm but profound conversations. So many golden nuggets for my own journey. So he’s a sort of a business, also CA, not practicing anymore, moved more into the networking and business coach space, but yeah, I can encourage you to go and listen to that podcast. It’s going to change your life and the way you think.

And then the next one is Justinus Adriaanse. I think you also had him on your show. His passion for South Africa, rugby and the SA culture, his vision and demeanour and just the way he looks at life. It was such a brilliant episode, so nice to have a talk to.

Jan Hugo: And he must have obviously told you about his plans about the rugby and the Rugby World Cup.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, he wants to help the Springboks win five of the next ten World Cups. And I told him I’m there, I’m going to help. So yeah. And then the next one I can remember is Carmen Fourie. So Carmen is the lady that has a, I think, called Carmen on a Journey. So there we explored self-care and self-love. That was quite good. And then on the immigration side, Rhyn Visser and Chantel Janse van Rensburg were two people that I talked about immigration and they are in two different worlds in the immigration space, but with one common goal and it was to help people to get to New Zealand, right? That was pretty interesting.

And then the last one I’m going to mention is Renier Lombard. So you also, I think, had a talk to him and some of his colleagues, Nic Latouf. So yeah, Renier, the vision he had with the Lekker Network and the things that they’ve achieved thus far. And this coming from a guy that lost his job early in his 20s and he had to build up his company to where it is today. And I mean, this is also a guy that’s on a platform like LinkedIn where you have let’s say 500 to a thousand followers. This guy’s got 22,000. So he’s got a big following and is quite well known in the business space and he’s made a name for himself. So all of them were very special and we had great moments. And yeah, I shared a video today earlier about some bloopers. As you know, it’s not always easy to do this and not to make mistakes. So yeah, that’s the sort of the things I wanted to mention about the first season, yeah.

Jan Hugo: Excellent. That’s very good. I think one of the most interesting guys I’ve had on was Jock du Plessis. I don’t know. He teaches Afrikaans in America at a university in Wisconsin.

Abré van Wyk: Wow.

Jan Hugo: Just a really, really fascinating guy. Even though he’s lived there since 84, he’s got a program to teach Afrikaans and he’s incredibly passionate about South Africa and Afrikaans and being an African. He calls himself an African first before he’s South African. Really interesting guy. Anyway, well done. That sounds amazing. How difficult do you think it is to set up a business in New Zealand if you arrive without a specific job?

Abré van Wyk: So setting up a business is probably one of the easiest things to do here. It’s an easy application, online application, and you sort of get approved immediately. I just think that you need to know your limitations with regards to your visa that will determine what you can do here and how long you can stay. So that I leave to the immigration specialists to discuss. But the setup of a company and a bank account is one, two, three. It’s so easy. So you can get started if you are in the right position.

Jan Hugo: Okay. Comparison between Australia and New Zealand, I’ve spoken to a lot of people in Australia, but also in New Zealand. Why would you choose New Zealand over Australia, for instance?

Abré van Wyk: So I think there’s a lot of similarities, but to an extent, I think Australia is a bit more tedious in their visa application process. And they operate also, they have the, I think the five provinces or regions. I think it’s, I stand corrected. I mean, each of them operate as a sort of an entity at its own, so they make their own decisions, their own rules, everything goes to visas, etc. And New Zealand is New Zealand. You apply for the whole country, you can go anywhere. And from what I’ve heard, life in Australia is a bit cheaper to live there, less expensive money-wise. And there’s a few more opportunities. And I think the economy is a bit better at this stage. So a lot of people actually come to New Zealand, unfortunately, get the passport. And then because of their reciprocal agreement, you can then, when you have the black passport from New Zealand, you can jump the bridge between the two countries and you can go to Australia freely without any further applications.

Jan Hugo: Some people use New Zealand as a route to Australia. Yeah. Okay. That’s really interesting.

Abré van Wyk: It is.

Jan Hugo: So obviously, you call it a soft landing with having family in New Zealand. But in terms of people that you’ve met, is it mostly South Africans or through your sister you meet a lot of people in Hamilton?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah. So I think when you get to a foreign place and an unknown place, you sort of look for something that is known to you and that’s South Africans. And luckily it’s easy to find them with Facebook these days. And the communities are thriving here, South African communities. So people tend to find each other and they create opportunities to meet and to braai and to dance, you know. So yeah, I think because the process is so strenuous on your mind and your heart, you try to just look for something that’s familiar.

Jan Hugo: I guess that’s an important thing because also a lot of people have said in my discussions that it’s important for husband and wife to be on the same page when they leave.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly.

Jan Hugo: And make sure that when one is up the other one, or that one is down the other one is up, that you can support each other because it’s not easy.

Abré van Wyk: This is difficult, yeah.

Jan Hugo: And do you have, have you guys made friends with New Zealanders or how difficult is that?

Abré van Wyk: So they are quite open to that. It’s just, I think we’ve been here only a year and last year was quite hectic. So we haven’t actually made a lot of Kiwi friends, but I think our focus will be different for the coming year. And we are open to it. So we want to meet the people and get to know the culture, you know, so yeah. That’s the plan.

Jan Hugo: And how do they respond to South Africans? I mean, you know, often you hear in Australia, there’s some derogatory comments from the locals about the South Africans all hanging together and so on. Is it the same in New Zealand?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, I think they are. There are more people that just leave you alone. So they won’t interfere really. So I haven’t had an experience with anything like that. I would say they would rather welcome you because we’ve met some great people that’s very inviting and they just, when they socialise it’s different. They will invite you to a dinner and they ask you to arrive at 6pm. So when you get there at 6pm, you eat and then you chat a bit and then you go home. So there’s no pre-drinks and no snacks and no chats around the fire, you know. So it’s pretty straightforward but it’s a good, yeah, good.

And they have this thing that they say bring a plate. So you have to know what is to bring a plate and that’s to bring something to eat, not just a plate.

Jan Hugo: Okay. And not just a bottle of wine.

Abré van Wyk: Yes, exactly.

Jan Hugo: That’s interesting. And because people have said that in Australia it’s sometimes quite different because there’s no help. People don’t invite you to their house. You meet them in a park for a picnic or you meet them at a restaurant. Is it similar in New Zealand?

Abré van Wyk: No, I haven’t noticed that. But you do meet a lot of people in these parks because their playgrounds and their parks are amazing. It’s so well kept and so many stuff for the children to do. So when the weather is good, everybody is out.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. And it’s safe, obviously. That’s a big thing.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly. That’s the thing. Yeah.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. And I mean, so obviously, I think that’s big for South Africans often is the help thing of having somebody helping to clean the house and so on. Have you guys found that that’s difficult?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, that’s one of the struggles. Definitely. Luckily, me and my wife chose to stay in a very tiny home. So to keep it simple.

Jan Hugo: Okay. Yeah. But it is different, you have to adapt. We were fortunate. We had a period of COVID where we had to do everything ourselves before we left. So by the time we left, we were quite used to doing everything. So it is a bit difficult. Obviously the family is a big issue and you still have your parents and you say your wife’s mother. How do they feel about you guys leaving?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, well, so my parents was sort of used to the idea because my sister was away, but not happy. And my mother-in-law, so she only has two daughters. So it was quite hard. Up to this day it is. I mean, to say goodbye now last week was quite difficult. Yeah, I don’t think it will ever get sort of better. It just becomes more bearable, I think.

Jan Hugo: And do you have a regular schedule when you talk to them?

Abré van Wyk: No, not really. So even when, and it’s mostly over weekends because of the time difference.

Jan Hugo: Yeah, the time difference is an issue. Yeah. Do you foresee them coming across to visit on your side?

Abré van Wyk: Yes, so my parents have been here quite a few times. This is why my sister obviously has lived here for the past seven years. My mother-in-law will be coming this year if all goes to plan for the first time. Because we’ve only been here a year.

Jan Hugo: And just door-to-door from where you are to Cape Town, how long does that take?

Abré van Wyk: In South Africa, what do you mean?

Jan Hugo: No, I mean, flight-wise. How long a travel is it to get home?

Abré van Wyk: Okay. So actually, the one we took in December took us only 24 hours in total.

Jan Hugo: That’s not too bad.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah. And then now when we came back, it was about 33 hours.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. Wow. That’s a long time.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, yeah. I guess that’s part of the downside of New Zealand that it takes all these time zones and it takes you a while to get out of the jet lag. That’s why I initially said never New Zealand, but now here I am.

Jan Hugo: But at least you’re still wearing a Springbok jersey. Hopefully that will never change.

Abré van Wyk: That will never change.

Jan Hugo: Have you been to watch rugby there?

Abré van Wyk: Yes, we were lucky to actually go see the first All Blacks game in Auckland last year, the one that we lost.

Jan Hugo: Okay.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, unfortunately we lost, but it was still a good game and a good vibe, lots of South Africans. You can’t believe how many there are here.

Jan Hugo: And who wants to go and watch the rugby in one single day? Yeah, that’s amazing. And just thinking about this last year and the journey that you’ve been on, is there anything that you would have done differently given where you are now? And it’s only a year. I know it’s a relatively short time.

Abré van Wyk: I don’t think there’s anything I would have done differently. I would have rather wanted this relocation to happen earlier in my life, because we are touching 40, 41. I think we’re at a stage we wanted to be settled sort of in a place. And I mean, I know it’s a decision that we made, but I think if it happened earlier, it would have been a bit easier. But yeah, that goes for that.

Jan Hugo: Okay. And I mean, a topic that comes up in every conversation is what do you take with you when you go? And a lot of people like us made the mistake of shipping a big container with stuff. What did you guys do?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, so our plan came about that we kept our home in South Africa. We sort of tried to sell off everything, most of our stuff, and the other half that didn’t sell or that we kept went to our holiday home in Stilbaai. So we only shipped a few boxes over here to New Zealand so we started sort of fresh and yeah, we bought some second-hand furniture from Marketplace and got a few things from my sister and them, and so yeah. And the community as I said previously, they’re always here to help so there’s a lot of re-gifting going on for new arrivals.

Jan Hugo: No, because I think a lot of people make the same mistake and they ship too much stuff. When we shipped the whole 40-foot container and we donated basically everything because the furniture is bigger than the houses that you have in South Africa. So that is always a big thing. And Abré, in terms of things that we’re used to in South Africa, like Discovery and medical aid and the sort of day-to-day things that you’re used to, what is that like in New Zealand?

Abré van Wyk: So medical, you go to state hospitals, yeah? And then if you want to see a doctor, you have to make a sort of a booking. They have apps for everything. So you make a booking with a GP, but the weird and strange thing is you might only get a booking at a GP in two weeks’ time. So it’s fairly booked out. And they are all employed by the state. They sort of work eight to five, no special treatment sort of for you as a patient. If you are in danger or it’s an emergency, they will always help. So I mean, if you do have an emergency, you can call in and they will push you in the schedule. And then there is some co-payments for the parts that are not subsidised by the state or the government. And then you can also take out further medical insurance to cover those. And if you have any need for specialist address, so you can top up your cover if your needs are beyond what the government can provide.

Jan Hugo: Okay. And just in general cost of living wise, was it a shock? I mean, obviously with your sister again, that helps with the soft landing, but was it a shock compared to South Africa?

Abré van Wyk: Definitely. It’s more expensive to live here, but your ratio and your salary makes up for that. And what helped for us is my wife’s salary went up quite a bit compared to teachers in South Africa. So that gap came closer or closed up, but it is a bit more expensive. I mean, in the first few months, you just translate, late transfer, everything, you times about ten, just to see what the price in rand is, you know. So you compare it to South Africa the whole time, but you can’t do that. You’re gonna make yourself crazy. It is expensive. And I mean, New Zealand has been in sort of a recession for the past year or two. So it’s tough times out here and work is scarce. So it was actually not a brilliant time to come here. But we live on grace and we have faith. We’ve always been looked after. But it is the key factor. It is an expensive country to live in. So you just have to work very well with your money.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. That’s interesting. I mean, you’ve only been away a year. Do you notice any change in the sort of cost of living in South Africa inflation-wise?

Abré van Wyk: Definitely. No, I was, I mean, I didn’t do a lot of shopping, but so we ate at some restaurants and prices went up to 20, I would say. I’m just thinking about the Spur now, 20% at least. Yeah.

Jan Hugo: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t, I cannot imagine what it looks like now for me because, you know, five years ago when I think you could get a Spur burger under a hundred bucks in South Africa, apparently that’s not on it. It’s more, yeah.

Abré van Wyk: I think it has more than doubled now since you’ve been there.

Jan Hugo: That is incredible. But I guess that applies everywhere. I mean, even where we are with the rand being at 20 to the euro, when you think what you pay for a cup of coffee, you actually shudder, so you have to stop thinking in rands, otherwise it just gets very difficult. I mean, just in terms of, for you guys from South Africa, obviously as an accountant, do you properly immigrate for tax purposes as well? Do you still maintain both South African and New Zealand links?

Abré van Wyk: New Zealand becomes your primary sort of tax destination, but I do keep up my South African pot as well because I have some links there still and do some work there as well.

Jan Hugo: I guess that not that permanent yet. And as you said, you’ve got longer term plans.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly. And I still have the property there that I rent out. So.

Jan Hugo: Okay. Yeah. I think you did say that, you know, that the thing that you would have done differently was to come earlier. If you think back, is there anything you would have maybe done differently? What’s the biggest lesson other than coming earlier in this journey and the process of applying and getting there? Was there anything you think now you would have done differently?

Abré van Wyk: I think I would have made some contacts way earlier. So started networking and finding out what things is like here, who to talk to, where to go to. So I think that’s also one reason that I started this podcast, KarooKiwi, is to be that information guide for people coming this way or to any other country for that matter, is to know what you get yourself into.

Jan Hugo: I think that’s very true. A lot of times people is like the guys with the Lekker Network. It’s all about who you know. It’s not necessarily what you know and it’s being able to be connected to the right people. So if a young guy comes to you now, young CA has just finished his articles and he’s faced with a career choice, what would you advise him to do? Go, stay, explore?

Abré van Wyk: If you’re young, I would say go. I mean, it doesn’t even have to be New Zealand. It can be America or the UK. Because I see a lot of people these days they make a turn in one of those countries and then when they come back they can still work from South Africa in the UK or in America and earning those currencies but then you have that tax knowledge which is key because it’s different to South Africa. You will be in high demand because you’re South African.

Jan Hugo: We have the following now. I think South Africa is becoming a brand.

Abré van Wyk: Absolutely.

Jan Hugo: Especially, I think CAs are very popular. I know a lot of friends have kids who go to Amsterdam, Ireland.

Abré van Wyk: Yes, that’s another one.

Jan Hugo: The South Africans are in high demand and they generally do well. My sense is that South Africans are driven and when you employ a South African, you’re always going to get good value nine out of ten times.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly. You just have to keep that up.

Jan Hugo: Yes. No, that’s true. And last question. If you could ship anything from South Africa today, what would it be?

Abré van Wyk: Wow. It would probably be family in a box.

Jan Hugo: Yeah.

Abré van Wyk: No, yeah. So yeah, I think the honest part of being overseas and you don’t have all your family sort of there is, yeah, it’s just that, it’s having that connection with them.

Jan Hugo: I think if you ask nine out of ten expats, they will say that’s the case, that they miss their families. Yeah, I think, yeah, that’s that sense of community and so on. Yeah. You mentioned faith. Is it, are you guys linked to a local church or church with lots of South Africans? Or how do you guys, how does that work over in New Zealand?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah. So this is, you are spoiled for choice here. So quite a few churches and there’s an Afrikaans one as well. So we do like to go to more of the charismatic churches. So we are linked to one of the ones here in Hamilton. We’ve done some, as they call it, church hopping at first just to find our spot and our place we felt comfortable and yeah, so we found that.

Jan Hugo: That’s awesome. I think a lot of, you know, when you go to Europe, like where we are, mostly Catholic and it’s Portuguese and it’s very difficult so you basically have to stick to internet church, you know.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah.

Jan Hugo: But yeah, that is quite difficult. So one last other question: how often do you braai?

Abré van Wyk: We braai as often as we can. So no, we can’t do it every night but we braai mostly on gas. Not that there’s no wood here, so you can braai with wood. But the problem is finding a proper braai drom or a stand. So you either have to build yourself a sort of a fire pit or get yourself a half-cut steel drum or something. So you can throw some wood in there. But the meat is good.

Jan Hugo: I believe meat in New Zealand is really good.

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, the meat is great. And that’s one of the things that’s pretty comparable in price to South Africa.

Jan Hugo: And you eat mostly lamb or beef as well?

Abré van Wyk: Beef, lamb and then chicken is the cheapest here. So we started off with chicken, we now add beef.

Jan Hugo: But for us South African, chicken is a vegetable.

Abré van Wyk: Exactly, so we have chicken with our beef.

Jan Hugo: That’s awesome. And just again, I come to mind wine in New Zealand. Are you a wine connoisseur having grown up and lived in Worcester?

Abré van Wyk: No, not really. That’s unfortunately, and I’ve actually worked for a wine company for eight years. So I do drink wine, but it’s not something that I love to do really as a norm. I’m more of a beer drinker. Used to be a sort of a craft beer chaser, but yeah, I’m back to the normal Castle Lite style, just low carb, you know, crispy lagers.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. Okay. Is it also quite a craft beer culture in New Zealand?

Abré van Wyk: Yeah, I think the craze is over. So there’s some of the big ones that stuck, but there’s a lot of, again, spoilt for choice from Australia and New Zealand. So very nice beers over here.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. Okay. And just, I’ll stop now, the coffee culture. Is New Zealand a big, do you have a big coffee culture or not?

Abré van Wyk: Huge coffee culture, yeah. No, New Zealanders like their coffee. And it’s amazing. I don’t know what coffee costs in Europe, but here it is roughly between six and eight New Zealand dollars. So that relates about R60 to R80 for coffee.

Jan Hugo: Yeah, that’s probably similar here. It depends where you are. I mean, in Portugal, when you go out in the country, you pay 80 euro cents or so for a nice coffee, which would be about R16. But when you go out in towns and cities, and like we were in Budapest last week, it’s crazy. But people have gone mad with coffee. I mean, there’s a coffee bar around every corner and great coffee and so on. So I love coffee. So for me, it’s very nice.

Abré van Wyk: Same here. But I do love coffee. You get every sort of flavour and look and feel and roast and toast. So no, it’s all good.

Jan Hugo: Awesome. Gee, thanks for that lekker conversation. So I mean, people can contact you. KarooKiwi is on all the platforms.

Abré van Wyk: Yes. Yes. So we’re on all the known platforms: Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, even TikTok. I have a profile there. So it’s sort of linked to my personal profile. And then YouTube is the one that we’re trying to push. And then we do have a website. So it’s just karookiwi.com. And you can send us an email as well to info@karookiwi.com.

Jan Hugo: Yeah. Awesome. That sounds wonderful. Thank you so much, Abré. A really interesting discussion and interesting talking to somebody who hasn’t been there for a long time. I think that’s a new one. Thank you very much and really wish you well with your podcast and your business and living in New Zealand. Thanks very much for joining me.

Abré van Wyk: Thanks, Jan. It was a privilege. Thank you very much. I’m actually looking forward to our discussion to have you on my podcast.

Jan Hugo: Awesome. Looking forward. Thank you.

Jan Hugo: If you enjoyed my discussion with Abré and would like to hear more and similar stories from South Africans who have immigrated, why not subscribe on your favourite platform. If you would like to share your own story or comment on any of our discussions, please contact me on jan@therelocatedsouthafrican.com. Until next time.

This transcript was generated with the assistance of AI technology and has been reviewed for accuracy.